release 0.7.5 and Thunderbird Google address sync
0.7.5 is a bugfix release.
Before work starts on the next release we’re inviting feedback from Gmail users on a question that often gets asked:
why doesn’t the addon sync Thunderbird postal addresses with Google?
There’s a reason why Thunderbird and Google postal addresses don’t sync.
Google Thunderbird Postal Address sync
Google and Thunderbird use different fields for postal addresses:
- Address
- Thunderbird:
- Address Line 1
- Address Line 2
- City
- State
- Zip/Postcode
- Country
The addon doesn’t sync postal addresses because there is no reliable bi-directional mapping between Google and Thunderbird postal address fields.
Despite this impediment, here is a suggestion from a Zindus user (thanks AA) :
I would take a “compromise” approach. Map each Thunderbird field to a line within the Google Address field, prefixed by the field name. For example:
Google Address field:
[ZindusStreetLine1] Via Manzoni 12345
[ZIndusCity] Milan
[ZindusZip] 20100
[ZindusCountry] ItalyThis implies that:
a) You can sync from Thunderbird to Google without losing information.
b) You can sync from Google to Thunderbird if the user collaborates in adopting the syntax above when editing Google contacts.This should add something without losing the current freedom.
The spirit is: given that comprehensive synchronization is impossible, please give me a way to see the addresses of my Thunderbird contact list in Gmail.
I think this could satisfy the basic needs of many users. Again, better than nothing…
To summarize: Thunderbird postal addresses get synced with Google. If Google has text in the postal address field it isn’t synced - unless it is all prefixed with [Zindus*] labels.
What do people think about this proposal?
One sticking point is that if Google contacts get synced with some other device, like a mobile phone, the phone’s contacts are populated with these labels. That’s not ideal.
Another sticking point is that it doesn’t translate very well. English-language labels like [ZindusStreetLine1] make sense to an English speaker, but to give English-speakers a feel for the translation issues, let’s imagine the labels are in French:
[ZindusRueLigne1] Via Manzoni 123456
[ZIndusVille] Milan
[ZindusCodePostal] 20100
[ZindusPays] Italy
The French labels are less clear but the meaning can still be made out. But imagine what these labels would look like to an Arabic, Chinese or Japanese speaker!
We really want to keep the addon configuration simple, so any feature for the next release that supports postal address sync isn’t going to have an on/off switch. If the feature can’t apply to everyone it won’t get implemented. This stance might weaken over time if there’s enough interest in addresses but there is already a selectable option planned for a future release and we are determined to avoid complexity.
Can this idea (or something like it) be made to work for everyone? What about speakers of non-Latin languages? What about the [Zindus*] labels getting carried along via Google into other devices?
Any other ideas?
Update on 2008-05-15: the current proposal.
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April 30th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
If you do sync addresses with Google you’ll have to make it an option - there’s no general answer to this problem that’ll work for everyone.
If you do make it an option - please default it to OFF.
May 1st, 2008 at 4:15 am
Agree with Marcus - there’s no elegant solution to this, and Google ought perhaps to have provided more detailed address fields (I imagine they balked when they found out how many ways there are of handling addresses in different countries).
It would indeed be nice not to loose any info, and the method above seems acceptable, but I would definitely make it optional and default it to ‘Off’.
Finally, does anyone else think it’s strange not to provide a ‘url’ field of some sort? They are a web company after all…
May 1st, 2008 at 7:08 am
Perhaps using commas to separate lines would work? I imagine that’s how Google envisions their single-line addresses, so that they can be plugged directly into a google maps search field. Using commas would be fast and language-neutral as well. As long as there’s clear instructions, I don’t think people would get confused. Zindus would have to count backwards from the state, zip code, or country to determine if there’s an address line 2, and maybe have to take a best guess at times. Alternatively, users always entered a postal code or country, then that should remove any guesswork. Either way, it’s a very acceptable solution to Google’s lack of contact fields.
Thanks for building this. Synching with Google’s contacts is the next big thing (again).
May 1st, 2008 at 12:36 pm
@Nick: Like you said, there are a *lot* of ways of handling addresses, here’s a flavour: http://bitboost.com/ref/international-address-formats.html
@Jay: Nice idea but I don’t think it’s a goer. With comma-separated the meaning of the field is implicit in the ordering. ie #2 == [Address Line 2]. Thunderbird 3 will change the address format and then when you want to sync with Gmail from both an old and new Thunderbird version you’re stuck. Explicit labels have the advantage of insulating the Gmail postal address content against changes in the Thunderbird format.
May 1st, 2008 at 9:34 pm
With the info above in mind, I would find the following useful:
For each contact …
… If Gmail has ANY address data, do nothing.
… If Gmail has NO address data, put the Thunderbird address info into Gmail in some fashion — don’t worry about it being formatted just right if there are ambiguities
This would allow one to enter address data in Thunderbird, and then have the address data in Gmail for times when one is away from one’s computer on which Thunderbird is installed.
May 2nd, 2008 at 2:16 am
IMHO the most straight forward method would be to just map each line in the Gmail address field to the next field in the Thunderbird address tab. So
line1=address1
line2-address2
line3=city
line4=state
line5=zip
line6=country
line7=web page
When I tried this in Gmail, the address field does maintain the extra line ending carriage returns. This method avoids the extra field prefixing and problems with extra data when syncing with other devices.
May 6th, 2008 at 11:39 pm
I agree with the above suggestion by David L; it is straightforward and intuitive. To handle errors, if Zindus detects some sort of anomoly in a specific address - mismatched numbers of lines, or maybe even a specific line that doesn’t match an expected format (like zip code, state or webpage) - then Zindus can alert the user and present a number of options to correct the problem.
There is another completely separate alternative. I don’t know how much you can do with an add-on, but couldn’t you change the format of the address tab, when someone selects Google (vs. Zimbra) as the provider? Just make it identical to Google’s address format?
May 7th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
What about :
THUNDERBIRD to GMAIL :
write TH[Address Line 1 , Address Line 2 , City , State , Zip/Postcode , Country] properly into GM[Address]
anyway conflict is resolved in favour of Thunderbird.
GMAIL to THUNDERBIRD :
write GM[Address] into TH[NOTE]
ps: have a look to noksync addon
https://addons.mozilla.org/fr/thunderbird/addon/4075
May 7th, 2008 at 10:38 pm
oups… all GM[Address] will end in GM[Note] if I do nothing!
…then in my specific case (GMail priority, offline access, mémo printting & mobile sync), just map GM[Address] with TH[Note].
May 8th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
For now, just make syncing address information a one way street. Sync addresses to Gmail but not the opposite.
May 12th, 2008 at 11:13 am
I agree with the intuitive map each line (without tags) approach. if the Google address field consists of exactly 6 lines try to synch it, if not user has to fix it
or ignore it
May 12th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
This is not so much about Zindus, but about Thunderbird: why doesn’t TB support address fields without lines, i.e. like Google? Wouldn’t this be simpler for everyone? There are many different ways you can structure address information for different places, and when syncing from one application to another many fields are never correctly mapped. I think simple address fields (like the Notes field), are the best compromise, unless you have a specific reason for different line fields (tied, I suppose, to certain applications).
May 13th, 2008 at 10:15 am
@DavidL - encoding the fields 1,2,3 makes the format brittle - there are new Thunderbird 3 address fields in planning.
@julien23 - I don’t have a nokia phone so I couldn’t test the extension you pointed to. From browsing the source code it doesn’t look like it tackles this address-mapping issue?
@nygamma - Thunderbird came first, Google came later, so the mismatch isn’t necessarily Thunderbird’s fault. Here is my take on the tradeoffs:
Single fields (Google):
- easy to capture (copy and paste)
- easy to localize
Differentiated fields (Thunderbird, Outlook, Yahoo):
- fine-grain management
- better data exchange with apps that expect differentiated fields
Looking back over the suggestions around encoding format (including the original posting), there is a theme of trying to balance making the format both “machine readable” and “human friendly”. To the extent that these are competing purposes, I now think a sync engine has to prioritize “machine readable”. With that in mind, here is something that might be workable:
Human-readability for English speakers isn’t great, but it’s legible to tech folks. To make it better, someone could write a greasemonkey script to twiddle Gmail’s web interface to replace the single address field with differentiated fields (when that field contains XML). Localization could be handled there too. There is already a greasemonkey API and scripts for use with Gmail.
Assuming the feedback is positive, the plan is to roll this out as an “experimental” feature in the release after next. Enabling it will involve setting a preference in the same way that a small number of people like to twiddle the sync frequency. Eventually there might be an “advanced” button for this stuff.
Thoughts?
May 20th, 2008 at 2:48 am
[…] Thunderbirdのzindusというアドオンを利用すると，Thunderbirdのアドレス帳とGmailのアドレス帳を同期すること賀できます． […]
June 10th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Shoot hit return too soon!
Why not encode in the comment field what the format used for the address field was? This works fine as long as Google isn’t the source of the info. So for standard US addresses, you might have
1234 Main St.
Shipping Dept.
Anywhere, FL 123456
and in the comment field something like this
Work Address: %A1 %N A%2 %N %CITY, %STATE %POSTAL (%N marks the new lines)
June 17th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
[…] earlier blog entry on postal addresses began by noting the underlying difficulty of syncing Thunderbird and Google […]
November 22nd, 2008 at 8:48 am
Hello,
I am very interested in syncing my Live Mail account with ThunderBird. Thank you for all your tech support.
Be Well,
Ivan Lujan
October 13th, 2009 at 9:06 pm
First, thanks for your work.
I agree with DavidL and Julien23.
I precise that Google Sync application on Blackberry smartphone use exactly this rule (one line for each field in Gmail contact postal adress).
When I synchronize Gmail with my phone, the fields are filled correctly if I respect this simple rule exactly like describ by DavidL !
Why does not simply to propose this option ?
Best regards
Alain LE FLOCH